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On 14.08.2012 12:48, Matthias Goldhoorn wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:502A2D08.1080008@dfki.de" type="cite">
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Hello together,<br>
<br>
I think i move this to the ML, because i still couldn't answer all
questions.<br>
Maybe one of the more-active developers could take over (or
extend) the "core" questions below?<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
Matthias<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------
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<th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">Subject:
</th>
<td>RE: Avalon's Middleware</td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">Date: </th>
<td>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 12:15:34 +0200</td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">From: </th>
<td>Jan Sliwka <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:sliwka@cmre.nato.int"><sliwka@cmre.nato.int></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap">To: </th>
<td>'Matthias Goldhoorn' <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de"><matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<pre>I am searching for an (new) comm-framework for our particular project which
could become THE framework for all the nurc vehicles in general.
In order to do so, as you said, I am collecting information for a
state-of-the-art report. If you have access to report like this, I'd
appreciate to have it.
I took a look into rock and orocos. I think the documentation and tutorials
you provide on your webpage is well structured and complete but in my
opinion they are hard to follow for someone who wants to know about rock
without necessarily having it installed on the computer and as a consequence
not able to test the lines of code you provide. Maybe you could add a small
paragraph to your webpage about how rock works in a simplified (short!!!)</pre>
</blockquote>
Ack - now on our todo list<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:502A2D08.1080008@dfki.de" type="cite">
<pre>
version with lots of diagrams (like it is the case for the orocos doc but
maybe even simpler...), what a user needs to know (ruby, c++), provide
templates for users to fill with code... you should maybe not assume that
people know or should know orocos (since orocos is another sea of code if
you know what I mean). Or maybe it is impossible to separate orocos and
rock?...I mean making a full abstraction out of it.</pre>
</blockquote>
Orocos-related software represents a large part of the
Rock-Toolchain. However, (as one example)<br>
due to the strict separation between driver development and
framework you can always use our drivers independently of the given<br>
framework. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:502A2D08.1080008@dfki.de" type="cite">
<pre>
What I like in your framework is the real-time aspect of orocos and the
tools you provide (little bit like ROS but more AUV oriented).
I have some questions. </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:502A2D08.1080008@dfki.de" type="cite">
<pre>
Question: do you provide a pdf version of the documentation for rock like
for orocos?</pre>
</blockquote>
no (t yet)<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:502A2D08.1080008@dfki.de" type="cite">
<pre>
Question: are the tools you provide tested and reliable? Is rock used by a
university or other institute other than DFKI?</pre>
</blockquote>
Using our release strategy from master->next->stable we try to
maintain stability and reliability, and most packages come along
with unit tests. <br>
We have seen Rock's toolchain and generated components working
reliably in our projects, which is one of the reasons for our first
release. <br>
<br>
Clearly, the main application base for now has been us at DFKI (in
different projects), and some partners. <br>
Since the first release has been only a couple of months ago and
some people/institute there might be still some unknown early
adopters. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:502A2D08.1080008@dfki.de" type="cite">
<pre>
Question: is it possible to use rock without knowing how to use orocos while
keeping the real-time aspect of the execution. </pre>
</blockquote>
Components in Rock are Orocos components - thus working with these
components (with real-time or not) does require a general
understanding of Orocos components and their working. The provided
tooling by Rock facilitates your task to build and manage single
components and (complex) networks of components and thus you don't
have to dive too deep. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:502A2D08.1080008@dfki.de" type="cite">
<pre>
Question: can you use the statecharts (based on orocos statecharts) using
rock only?</pre>
</blockquote>
short version: statechart integration does not exist<br>
<br>
long version: <br>
generating components via Rock (i.e. using oroGen) allows you easily
specify custom states of your component: 'Extending the state
machine'
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/orogen/task_states.html">http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/orogen/task_states.html</a><br>
<br>
Once you start building complex component networks an integration
into the supervision component (Roby ->
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/system/index.html">http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/system/index.html</a>)
exits. This integration relies on a mapping of the task state
transitions to events. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:502A2D08.1080008@dfki.de" type="cite">
<pre>
Question: does rock/orocos comply to a specific standard</pre>
</blockquote>
What kind of standard do you refer to?<br>
Generally, we try to push 'standardization' and rely on (common)
conventions, yet<br>
if you refer to DIN, ISO or similar official type of standard: not
for the Rock part. <br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rock.opendfki.de/wiki/WikiStart/Standards">http://rock.opendfki.de/wiki/WikiStart/Standards</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:502A2D08.1080008@dfki.de" type="cite">
<pre>
Question: what is the license of rock/orocos (It is GPLv2 I think but
correct me if I am mistaken)</pre>
</blockquote>
LGPL for most of the libraries, individual packages might differ
though<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Thomas<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:502A2D08.1080008@dfki.de" type="cite">
<pre>
That's all for now, I am sorry to ask those questions but orocos is a good
but complex tool and I find simplifying it (using rock) a good idea.
Looking forward to your answer,
And greetings from sunny Italy ;) (viva the air conditioning)
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthias Goldhoorn [<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de">mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>]
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:14 AM
To: Jan Sliwka
Subject: Re: Avalon's Middleware
how's going,
did you already take a look into "rock"?, got problems or is something
unclear?
Are you searching for an (new) comm-framework for the nurc vehicles in
general, or do you only collecting information for an state-of-the-art
report?
Greetings from sunny Bremen.
Matthias
On 09.08.2012 10:00, Jan Sliwka wrote:
> Thanks a lot!!!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthias Goldhoorn [<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de">mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>]
> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:26 AM
> To: Jan Sliwka
> Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sliwka@cmre.nato.int">sliwka@cmre.nato.int</a>; <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:malgorzata.goldhoorn@dfki.de">malgorzata.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>
> Subject: Re: Avalon's Middleware
>
> Am 08.08.2012 16:49, schrieb Jan Sliwka:
>> Hi Matthias,
>> I now work on middlewares for underwater robots at the NURC. I
>> remember you were developing one in DFKI but I forgot the name.
>> Could you give me some references and links where I can find more
>> information about it?
>> Say hello from me to Malgosia,
>> thanks,
>> Jan
> Hi Jan, nice to hear from you.
> Greetings of course back from Malgosia.
>
> So regarding the "Middleware" or communication framework.
>
> The Framework is called Rock-Robotics (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rock-robotics.org">www.rock-robotics.org</a>) it's an
> layer ontop of Orocos-RTT Tollchain.
> You can have RealTimeSupport but you not enforced to add an RTT Kernel.
> Rock proides a lot of typical driver like for the BlueView Sonar,
> Several Tritech devices and other stuff.
>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rock-robotics.org/stable/pkg/index.html">http://rock-robotics.org/stable/pkg/index.html</a> (search for driver for
e.G.).
> The Repositorys of the drivers (more or less all) are located on spacegit:
>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://gitorious.org/rock-drivers">http://gitorious.org/rock-drivers</a>
>
> These drivers are (on this layer) Framework-Independently written so
> that they can be used also on other frameworks or even simple
> programs, the build simply as an library that can be used everywhere.
>
> If yourneed any other information about rock or the capabilities, we
> are providing an mailinglist that's queite friendly and active. Since
> i'm also an rock-developer i got these mails too. But if you like you
> could contact me private too ;).
>
> Conrats's for you NURC Contract i aos thougt about sending an CV to
> the nurc in the future.
>
> Freetings from Cold northern Germany,
> Matthias
>
>
>
>
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--
Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn
Unterwasserrobotik
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</pre>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Thomas Röhr (M.Sc.)
Space Robotics
Standort Bremen:
DFKI GmbH
Robotics Innovation Center
Robert-Hooke-Straße 5
28359 Bremen, Germany
Phone: +49 (0)421 178-454151
Fax: +49 (0)421 178-454150
E-Mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:robotik@dfki.de">robotik@dfki.de</a>
Weitere Informationen: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.dfki.de/robotik">http://www.dfki.de/robotik</a>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
Firmensitz: Trippstadter Straße 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster
(Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)
USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973
Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3
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