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On 17.08.2012 14:03, Jan Sliwka wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello all,</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for your response. I didn’t know
that the project was so young. So it is normal that the
documentation is very technical. I would like to give my
opinion for the project since I find it interesting. An input
from third party might also be valuable. I am sorry if I say
some wrong things due to the misunderstandings of the Rock
framework.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Hey Jan, any kind of feedback is more than welcome, so thanks!<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would like first to talk about the
context. You know, you’re facing the famous ROS and my
question would be: what are the points in which you are equal
and those where you surpass ROS.<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">I would say that first; your strong point
might be the AUV world. Currently, there are very few
components related to the AUV in ROS. I think the second
strong point is the use of Orocos which enable better control
of the application (more suitable for fine control when
resources are lacking). However, the cost of better control is
higher complexity. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Regarding ROS IMO we are (still) on a complementary level, however
without being to elaborate some of the differentiators:<br>
- Rock's main driver is architecturing systems and targeting a
potentially large collection of components which requires advanced
management tools<br>
- Rock provides tools for complex system management see
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/system/index.html">http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/system/index.html</a><br>
- Rock is is therefore more strict and relies on a component-model
to allow to build up the tooling (also to foster reuse -> strict
separation of framework and drivers)<br>
- Rock is using the Orocos component model and thus allows for
real-time execution capability<br>
- Connections are modelled, so system designers can control where
data goes (not the component)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As for complexity, you have maybe been
victims of your own engineering strength. You can handle high
complexity and so you make complex systems. Now to compare Ros
and Rock.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If I understood correctly. To create a
component using Rock you need:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol" lang="EN"><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
lang="EN">Use rock-create-orogen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Change manifest.xml<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Add
the dependency<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Change <span lang="EN">message_producer.orogen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
lang="EN">Configure the component</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN">add
you(r) component to the build system by adding the package
to autproj/manifest’s layout section</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN">amake</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN">Change
Task.hpp, Task.cpp</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
lang="EN">The constructors (2), destructor</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2
lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
lang="EN">updateHook</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN">amake</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN">Change
orocos.rb</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN">ruby
start.rb</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Creating a configurable component is not
trivial (I mean not hard but once there are more than 5 place
to modify it becomes … not trivial). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As for connecting the components, I would
say that it is clear and easy. I think what should be
specified in your approach is that you spend time building
components but then, their usage becomes very easy and
professional. You should maybe focus on that point so that
people can sacrifice some of their time to build components.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ok. Now for ROS you need<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN">$
roscreate-pkg [package_name] [depend1] [depend2] [depend3]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Check <span lang="EN">manifest.xml
or edit if needed</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span lang="EN">rosdep
install [package]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:black" lang="EN">rosmake [package]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->run ROS: <span
style="color:black" lang="EN">roscore</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:black" lang="EN">Change Task.hpp and Task.cpp
(The interconnections can be defined here)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2
lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->All
the publishers can be created in the main function<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2
lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->All
the subscribers are associate a topic with a custom build
function which is called once a message appears on the topic<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:black" lang="EN">Use </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2
lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:black" lang="EN">rosrun [package_name]
[node_name] for running just one Node at a time</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast"
style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level2
lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="color:black" lang="EN">roslaunch [package]
[filename.launch] for running all the system</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Comparing ROCK and ROS setup I assume you actually want to stress
the 'required modification' part, i.e. improving steps to integrate
into the build system and such?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">ROS runs a parameter server which you can
initialize using a “.yaml” file. The parameters are accessible
through the functions “setParam/getParam. The difference with
Rock is that the server is centralized but you handle one
config per component which is maybe better. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The components are naturally connected
through topic names. The connection graph can be even remapped
using ROS remapping capability. However, this is not
necessarily good since the connection graph is not necessarily
defined in a single file. In the case of Rock all the
interconnections are visible in the same file. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I personally find ROS more ergonomic but
Rock having more potential.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"> To be honest I still didn’t use Rock but
it is the impression I have from reading the documentation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have some questions with regards to the
modules you offer:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="text-indent:
-0.25in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->What is the list of
communication devices you handle: Serial/I2C/CAN/Bluetooth?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Best check online: <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rock-robotics.org/stable/pkg/index.html">http://rock-robotics.org/stable/pkg/index.html</a><br>
and type in 'drivers'<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="text-indent:
-0.25in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Do you have a
simulator?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
We have use a custom simulator in our institute, however you can
easily attach your own, when using Rock. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="text-indent:
-0.25in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Do you have some sort
of mission planner? A set of behaviors which might be reused?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Not a planner but a plan manager: 'Roby' - which is used as
'supervision': <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://rock-robotics.org/stable/api/tools/roby/index.html">http://rock-robotics.org/stable/api/tools/roby/index.html</a><br>
<br>
Currently, there is no collection of behaviours publicly available.
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast"
style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Where is it possible to
get the code and their documentation<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Rock packages are hosted on gitorious.org <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Other questions: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As for the standard, I meant standards such
as OMG (Object Management Group) and so… <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
e.g. CORBA is used, or FIPA standards, and otherwise we start out
with convention(s) as already mentioned<br>
<br>
Hope that helps, best<br>
<br>
Thomas<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:000f01cd7c70$426d4090$c747c1b0$@nato.int"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sorry for that long mail, I hope I could
contribute to the project,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jan SLIWKA<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dr. Ing. at CMRE (formerly NURC)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
Thomas Roehr [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:thomas.roehr@dfki.de">mailto:thomas.roehr@dfki.de</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:sliwka@cmre.nato.int">sliwka@cmre.nato.int</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:rock-dev@dfki.de">rock-dev@dfki.de</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Rock-dev] Fwd: RE: Avalon's
Middleware<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 14.08.2012 12:48, Matthias Goldhoorn
wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello together,<br>
<br>
I think i move this to the ML, because i still couldn't answer
all questions.<br>
Maybe one of the more-active developers could take over (or
extend) the "core" questions below?<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
Matthias<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message -------- <o:p></o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="top"
nowrap="nowrap">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
align="right"><b>Subject: <o:p></o:p></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">RE: Avalon's Middleware<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="top"
nowrap="nowrap">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
align="right"><b>Date: <o:p></o:p></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">Tue, 14 Aug 2012 12:15:34 +0200<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="top"
nowrap="nowrap">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
align="right"><b>From: <o:p></o:p></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">Jan Sliwka <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sliwka@cmre.nato.int"><sliwka@cmre.nato.int></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="top"
nowrap="nowrap">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:right"
align="right"><b>To: <o:p></o:p></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal">'Matthias Goldhoorn' <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de"><matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>I am searching for an (new) comm-framework for our particular project which<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>could become THE framework for all the nurc vehicles in general.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>In order to do so, as you said, I am collecting information for a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>state-of-the-art report. If you have access to report like this, I'd<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>appreciate to have it. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>I took a look into rock and orocos. I think the documentation and tutorials<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>you provide on your webpage is well structured and complete but in my<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>opinion they are hard to follow for someone who wants to know about rock<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>without necessarily having it installed on the computer and as a consequence<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>not able to test the lines of code you provide. Maybe you could add a small<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>paragraph to your webpage about how rock works in a simplified (short!!!)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ack - now on our todo list<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>version with lots of diagrams (like it is the case for the orocos doc but<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>maybe even simpler...), what a user needs to know (ruby, c++), provide<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>templates for users to fill with code... you should maybe not assume that<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>people know or should know orocos (since orocos is another sea of code if<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>you know what I mean). Or maybe it is impossible to separate orocos and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>rock?...I mean making a full abstraction out of it.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal">Orocos-related software represents a large
part of the Rock-Toolchain. However, (as one example)<br>
due to the strict separation between driver development and
framework you can always use our drivers independently of the
given<br>
framework. <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>What I like in your framework is the real-time aspect of orocos and the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>tools you provide (little bit like ROS but more AUV oriented). <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>I have some questions. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Question: do you provide a pdf version of the documentation for rock like<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>for orocos?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal">no (t yet)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Question: are the tools you provide tested and reliable? Is rock used by a<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>university or other institute other than DFKI?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal">Using our release strategy from
master->next->stable we try to maintain stability and
reliability, and most packages come along with unit tests. <br>
We have seen Rock's toolchain and generated components working
reliably in our projects, which is one of the reasons for our
first release. <br>
<br>
Clearly, the main application base for now has been us at DFKI
(in different projects), and some partners. <br>
Since the first release has been only a couple of months ago
and some people/institute there might be still some unknown
early adopters. <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Question: is it possible to use rock without knowing how to use orocos while<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>keeping the real-time aspect of the execution. <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal">Components in Rock are Orocos components -
thus working with these components (with real-time or not)
does require a general understanding of Orocos components and
their working. The provided tooling by Rock facilitates your
task to build and manage single components and (complex)
networks of components and thus you don't have to dive too
deep. <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Question: can you use the statecharts (based on orocos statecharts) using<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>rock only?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal">short version: statechart integration does
not exist<br>
<br>
long version: <br>
generating components via Rock (i.e. using oroGen) allows you
easily specify custom states of your component: 'Extending the
state machine' <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/orogen/task_states.html">http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/orogen/task_states.html</a><br>
<br>
Once you start building complex component networks an
integration into the supervision component (Roby -> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/system/index.html">http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/system/index.html</a>)
exits. This integration relies on a mapping of the task state
transitions to events. <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Question: does rock/orocos comply to a specific standard<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal">What kind of standard do you refer to?<br>
Generally, we try to push 'standardization' and rely on
(common) conventions, yet<br>
if you refer to DIN, ISO or similar official type of standard:
not for the Rock part. <br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://rock.opendfki.de/wiki/WikiStart/Standards">http://rock.opendfki.de/wiki/WikiStart/Standards</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Question: what is the license of rock/orocos (It is GPLv2 I think but<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>correct me if I am mistaken)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal">LGPL for most of the libraries, individual
packages might differ though<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Thomas<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>That's all for now, I am sorry to ask those questions but orocos is a good<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>but complex tool and I find simplifying it (using rock) a good idea.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Looking forward to your answer,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>And greetings from sunny Italy ;) (viva the air conditioning)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Jan<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>From: Matthias Goldhoorn [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de">mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>] <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:14 AM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>To: Jan Sliwka<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Subject: Re: Avalon's Middleware<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>how's going,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>did you already take a look into "rock"?, got problems or is something<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>unclear?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Are you searching for an (new) comm-framework for the nurc vehicles in<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>general, or do you only collecting information for an state-of-the-art<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>report?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Greetings from sunny Bremen.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Matthias<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>On 09.08.2012 10:00, Jan Sliwka wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Thanks a lot!!!<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>> -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> From: Matthias Goldhoorn [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de">mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:26 AM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> To: Jan Sliwka<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sliwka@cmre.nato.int">sliwka@cmre.nato.int</a>; <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:malgorzata.goldhoorn@dfki.de">malgorzata.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Subject: Re: Avalon's Middleware<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>> Am 08.08.2012 16:49, schrieb Jan Sliwka:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>>> Hi Matthias,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>>> I now work on middlewares for underwater robots at the NURC. I <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>>> remember you were developing one in DFKI but I forgot the name.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>>> Could you give me some references and links where I can find more <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>>> information about it?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>>> Say hello from me to Malgosia,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>>> thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>>> Jan<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Hi Jan, nice to hear from you.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Greetings of course back from Malgosia.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>> So regarding the "Middleware" or communication framework.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>> The Framework is called Rock-Robotics (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.rock-robotics.org">www.rock-robotics.org</a>) it's an <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> layer ontop of Orocos-RTT Tollchain.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> You can have RealTimeSupport but you not enforced to add an RTT Kernel.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Rock proides a lot of typical driver like for the BlueView Sonar, <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Several Tritech devices and other stuff.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://rock-robotics.org/stable/pkg/index.html">http://rock-robotics.org/stable/pkg/index.html</a> (search for driver for<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>e.G.).<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> The Repositorys of the drivers (more or less all) are located on spacegit:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gitorious.org/rock-drivers">http://gitorious.org/rock-drivers</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>> These drivers are (on this layer) Framework-Independently written so <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> that they can be used also on other frameworks or even simple <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> programs, the build simply as an library that can be used everywhere.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>> If yourneed any other information about rock or the capabilities, we <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> are providing an mailinglist that's queite friendly and active. Since <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> i'm also an rock-developer i got these mails too. But if you like you <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> could contact me private too ;).<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>> Conrats's for you NURC Contract i aos thougt about sending an CV to <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> the nurc in the future.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>> Freetings from Cold northern Germany,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> Matthias<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>> **********************************************************************<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> ************************<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>> *** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ***<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>><o:p> </o:p></pre>
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<pre>> The information contained in this e-mail message (including any <o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>> The information should neither be posted to the Internet, nor <o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>--<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Unterwasserrobotik<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> Hauptanschrift Standort Bremen:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> DFKI GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Robotics Innovation Center<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Robert-Hooke-Straße 5<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> 28359 Bremen, Germany<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> Phone: +49 (0)421 178 45-4193<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Fax: +49 (0)421 178 45-4150<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> E-Mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:robotik@dfki.de">robotik@dfki.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> Weitere Informationen: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.dfki.de/robotik">http://www.dfki.de/robotik</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> -----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre> (Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Rock-dev mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Rock-dev@dfki.de">Rock-dev@dfki.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Thomas Röhr (M.Sc.)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Space Robotics<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Standort Bremen:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>DFKI GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Robotics Innovation Center<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Robert-Hooke-Straße 5<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>28359 Bremen, Germany<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Phone: +49 (0)421 178-454151<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Fax: +49 (0)421 178-454150<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>E-Mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:robotik@dfki.de">robotik@dfki.de</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Weitere Informationen: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.dfki.de/robotik">http://www.dfki.de/robotik</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>-----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Firmensitz: Trippstadter Straße 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>(Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3 <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>-----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<hr><font size="2" color="black" face="arial"><i> *** PRIVILEGED
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formerly NURC)<br>
<br>
The information contained in this e-mail message (including
any attached files)<br>
is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and is
privileged information.<br>
The information should neither be posted to the Internet, nor
published in any<br>
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sender. If you are<br>
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representative, you are hereby<br>
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<hr> </blockquote>
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Thomas Röhr (M.Sc.)
Space Robotics
Standort Bremen:
DFKI GmbH
Robotics Innovation Center
Robert-Hooke-Straße 5
28359 Bremen, Germany
Phone: +49 (0)421 178-454151
Fax: +49 (0)421 178-454150
E-Mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:robotik@dfki.de">robotik@dfki.de</a>
Weitere Informationen: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.dfki.de/robotik">http://www.dfki.de/robotik</a>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
Firmensitz: Trippstadter Straße 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster
(Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)
USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973
Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------</pre>
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