<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br><div><div>Am 05.06.2014 um 09:08 schrieb Matthias Goldhoorn <<a href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Good Morning,<br>
<br>
I don't know what you mean with resistance, in the past master was
the most "stable" version with the newest features.<br>
Therefore there was no resistance.<br>
<br>
Specially for Syskit/Roby i not posted all bugs, most of the bugs
i workaround, but i will start to create bug-requests for this...<br>
<br>
Regarding the new functionality, you are right, most of these
features are not needed, they make only the life easier..., but if
i as developer see the need of a feature and implement it, i want
to use this directly. I think this is normal, since the rock-devs
are not pure-rock devs, work is done if we feel that we need
enhancements...<br>
<br>
Maybe we should rename the structure or introduce a experimental
branch. Phsychological i have the impression that "master" gets
associated with "newest" not with an "unstable development"
version. Maybe we should rename or create an additional "unstable"
branch, from where the release policy to master is not so fixed
windowed...<br>
<br>
example development:<br>
- work is done on experimental and pushed as soon as the dev thing
it might work<br>
- experimental is pushed to master, as soon the responsible dev
thing his changes work for all (few days upto a week?)<br>
<br>
Again i thing the primary reasons why most of all stays on master
ist that the other branches does not have the "needed"("wished")
features, or they have bugs that are not pushed from master<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I have my doubt here. None of the core packages had major issues the last couple of months forcing people to use master for the hole bootstrap. </div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div class="moz-cite-prefix">
<br>
Thoughts?<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I have the feeling we should just remove master as flavor. In this case everyone has to bootstrap next or stable and if needed he/she can manually overwrite specific packages.</div><div><br></div><div>Alex</div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div class="moz-cite-prefix">
Matthias<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 04.06.2014 17:00, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:20140604150021.A4C9FF372C_38F3485B@sea-mail.dfki.de" type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Then ... my next question would be:
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Why isn't there more resistance w.r.t. switching to
master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I mean, when you say "oh I had a bug on syskit on next",
did you report it as a functionality bug on next ? Did you
insist that it should be fixed *on next* ? instead of
switching to master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For new functionality, how much of it is "oh but I need X,
it is so shiny" instead of "without X, I really cannot do it
!". I mean, when I worked on the Orion I *wanted* some
features from master, but quickly realized that I did not
*need* them. I had what was strictly needed to get the Joints
type (meaning typelib/master but orogen/next)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for the release schedule / frequency, I can only do +1.
Releases are too far apart.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My big problem here is that master has become the de-facto
version of Rock that everyone uses, which really hinders
possibility to do some actual development.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sylvain</div>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 3:54 PM,
Matthias Goldhoorn <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de" target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
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<div>On 04.06.2014 15:43, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Is that everyone seem to think that
they need master. The majority should be using
stable or next.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now, I *know* that there are reasons (there
are always reasons) why one might think that
master is required. However, the main question
for me is:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> How can we make people feel confident that
they can use next ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Or</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> How can we ensure that 'next' can be used
except for a few packages that would go on
master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The best way to start answering these
questions is to answer another one:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Why are you on master ?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Because i using syskit and the next version is even more
unstable than master. I had several times that the
depandancy between roby/syskit and other 'core' packages
is hard. So i cannot stay a long time on next and only
with syskit/roby on master.<br>
Indeed i'm not sure if i can currently use syskit/roby on
next and everything else on master.<br>
<br>
So generally speaking, incompatibilities between
syskit/roby/utilmm/utilrb/typelib/orogen/ base/types/(std)<br>
<br>
<br>
The Second point, is that the release cycle to next is to
long for new features, i i (as rock-dev) add new features
to rock. I take ofter months before it goes into next.<br>
Therefore i have (due to the same reasons above) switch to
master, also for other members of my project. I would
prefer a shorter release time between
master/stable/next...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matthias
<div class=""><br>
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<div><br>
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<div>Sylvain </div>
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<pre cols="72">--
--
Matthias Goldhoorn
Unterwasserrobotik
Standort Bremen:
DFKI GmbH
Robotics Innovation Center
Robert-Hooke-Straße 5
28359 Bremen, Germany
Phone: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20%280%29421%20218-64100" value="+4942121864100" target="_blank">+49 (0)421 218-64100</a>
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E-Mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:robotik@dfki.de" target="_blank">robotik@dfki.de</a>
Weitere Informationen: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.dfki.de/robotik" target="_blank">http://www.dfki.de/robotik</a>
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(Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn
Space and Underwater Robotic
Universität Bremen
FB 3 - Mathematik und Informatik
AG Robotik
Robert-Hooke-Straße 1
28359 Bremen, Germany
Zentrale: +49 421 178 45-6611
Besuchsadresse der Nebengeschäftstelle:
Robert-Hooke-Straße 5
28359 Bremen, Germany
Tel.: +49 421 178 45-4193
Empfang: +49 421 178 45-6600
Fax: +49 421 178 45-4150
E-Mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@informatik.uni-bremen.de">matthias.goldhoorn@informatik.uni-bremen.de</a>
Weitere Informationen: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/robotik">http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/robotik</a></pre>
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">--</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Dipl.-Ing. Alexander Duda<br>Unterwasserrobotik<br>Robotics Innovation Center<br><br>Hauptgeschäftsstelle Standort Bremen:<br>DFKI GmbH<br>Robotics Innovation Center<br>Robert-Hooke-Straße 1<br>28359 Bremen, Germany<br><br>Tel.: +49 421 178 45-6620<br>Zentrale: +49 421 178 45-0<br>Fax: +49 421 178 45-4150 (Faxe bitte namentlich kennzeichnen)<br>E-Mail: <a href="mailto:Alexander.Duda@dfki.de">Alexander.Duda@dfki.de</a><br><br>Weitere Informationen: <a href="http://www.dfki.de/robotik">http://www.dfki.de/robotik</a><br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH<br>Firmensitz: Trippstadter Straße 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern<br>Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster<br>(Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff<br>Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes<br>Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313<br>Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)<br>USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973<br>Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3</div></div></div>
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