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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">...sounds good... but howto integrate
this into the flavored concept, simply not using flavors at all
for rock.core?<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matthias<br>
<br>
On 18.06.2014 15:16, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20140618131621.90534A54FC_3A19125B@sea-mail.dfki.de"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">One possible solution: decouple rock master from
rock.core master (different release schedules). rock.core master
would then become really a development branch where people
should not fear to push tested but not heavily tested code.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>The rules:<br>
<div>
<div>1. rock master CANNOT depend on features in rock.core
master. This ensures that the current up-to-date packages
are not dependent on development features in the
toolchain. This is ensured by making people always use
rock.core next or stable.</div>
<div>2. rock.core master MUST stay backward compatible, i.e.
at the point of release of rock.core, rock next should be
usable with rock.core master. In other words, releasing
rock.core (from master to next) should not break existing
'next' applications.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thoughts?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sylvain<br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 2:02 PM,
Matthias Goldhoorn <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de" target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>-1 because for checkint our tree we need master, on
we simply remove it from the server i'm sure people find
ways like in the overrides <br>
<br>
*:<br>
- branch: master<br>
<br>
to do such things.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matthias
<div class=""><br>
<br>
On 05.06.2014 13:23, Vincent vittori wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">+1 for removing master </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="">2014-06-05 9:25 GMT+02:00 Alexander
Duda <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Alexander.Duda@dfki.de"
target="_blank">Alexander.Duda@dfki.de</a>></span>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>
<div>Am 05.06.2014 um 09:08 schrieb
Matthias Goldhoorn <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de"
target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>>:</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Good Morning,<br>
<br>
I don't know what you mean with
resistance, in the past master was
the most "stable" version with the
newest features.<br>
Therefore there was no resistance.<br>
<br>
Specially for Syskit/Roby i not
posted all bugs, most of the bugs
i workaround, but i will start to
create bug-requests for this...<br>
<br>
Regarding the new functionality,
you are right, most of these
features are not needed, they make
only the life easier..., but if i
as developer see the need of a
feature and implement it, i want
to use this directly. I think this
is normal, since the rock-devs are
not pure-rock devs, work is done
if we feel that we need
enhancements...<br>
<br>
Maybe we should rename the
structure or introduce a
experimental branch.
Phsychological i have the
impression that "master" gets
associated with "newest" not with
an "unstable development" version.
Maybe we should rename or create
an additional "unstable" branch,
from where the release policy to
master is not so fixed windowed...<br>
<br>
example development:<br>
- work is done on experimental and
pushed as soon as the dev thing it
might work<br>
- experimental is pushed to
master, as soon the responsible
dev thing his changes work for all
(few days upto a week?)<br>
<br>
Again i thing the primary reasons
why most of all stays on master
ist that the other branches does
not have the "needed"("wished")
features, or they have bugs that
are not pushed from master<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>I have my doubt here. None of the
core packages had major issues the last
couple of months forcing people to use
master for the hole bootstrap. </div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div> <br>
Thoughts?<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have the feeling we should just
remove master as flavor. In this case
everyone has to bootstrap next or stable
and if needed he/she can manually
overwrite specific packages.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alex</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
text="#000000">
<div> Matthias<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 04.06.2014 17:00, Sylvain
Joyeux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Then ... my next
question would be:
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Why isn't there more
resistance w.r.t. switching
to master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I mean, when you say "oh
I had a bug on syskit on
next", did you report it as
a functionality bug on next
? Did you insist that it
should be fixed *on next* ?
instead of switching to
master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For new functionality,
how much of it is "oh but I
need X, it is so shiny"
instead of "without X, I
really cannot do it !". I
mean, when I worked on the
Orion I *wanted* some
features from master, but
quickly realized that I did
not *need* them. I had what
was strictly needed to get
the Joints type (meaning
typelib/master but
orogen/next)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for the release
schedule / frequency, I can
only do +1. Releases are too
far apart.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My big problem here is
that master has become the
de-facto version of Rock
that everyone uses, which
really hinders possibility
to do some actual
development.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sylvain</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 3:54 PM,
Matthias Goldhoorn <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de"
target="_blank">matthias.goldhoorn@dfki.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
text="#000000">
<div>
<div>
<div>On 04.06.2014
15:43, Sylvain
Joyeux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Is
that everyone
seem to think
that they need
master. The
majority should
be using stable
or next.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now, I
*know* that
there are
reasons (there
are always
reasons) why
one might
think that
master is
required.
However, the
main question
for me is:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> How can
we make people
feel confident
that they can
use next ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Or</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> How can
we ensure that
'next' can be
used except
for a few
packages that
would go on
master ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The best
way to start
answering
these
questions is
to answer
another one:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Why are
you on master
?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Because i using syskit
and the next version is
even more unstable than
master. I had several
times that the
depandancy between
roby/syskit and other
'core' packages is hard.
So i cannot stay a long
time on next and only
with syskit/roby on
master.<br>
Indeed i'm not sure if i
can currently use
syskit/roby on next and
everything else on
master.<br>
<br>
So generally speaking,
incompatibilities
between
syskit/roby/utilmm/utilrb/typelib/orogen/
base/types/(std)<br>
<br>
<br>
The Second point, is
that the release cycle
to next is to long for
new features, i i (as
rock-dev) add new
features to rock. I take
ofter months before it
goes into next.<br>
Therefore i have (due to
the same reasons above)
switch to master, also
for other members of my
project. I would prefer
a shorter release time
between
master/stable/next...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Matthias
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sylvain </div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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<pre cols="72">--
--
Matthias Goldhoorn
Unterwasserrobotik
Standort Bremen:
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Robotics Innovation Center
Robert-Hooke-Straße 5
28359 Bremen, Germany
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<pre cols="72">--
Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn
Space and Underwater Robotic
Universität Bremen
FB 3 - Mathematik und Informatik
AG Robotik
Robert-Hooke-Straße 1
28359 Bremen, Germany
Zentrale: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20421%20178%2045-6611" value="+49421178456611" target="_blank">+49 421 178 45-6611</a>
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Alexander Duda<br>
Unterwasserrobotik<br>
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<br>
Hauptgeschäftsstelle Standort
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<div><br>
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<td width="40%"><font size="4">Vincent
Vittori</font><br>
<font style="font-weight:bold">Robotic
engineer MARUM</font><br>
<span
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<pre cols="72">--
Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn
Space and Underwater Robotic
Universität Bremen
FB 3 - Mathematik und Informatik
AG Robotik
Robert-Hooke-Straße 1
28359 Bremen, Germany
Zentrale: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B49%20421%20178%2045-6611" value="+49421178456611" target="_blank">+49 421 178 45-6611</a>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn
Space and Underwater Robotic
Universität Bremen
FB 3 - Mathematik und Informatik
AG Robotik
Robert-Hooke-Straße 1
28359 Bremen, Germany
Zentrale: +49 421 178 45-6611
Besuchsadresse der Nebengeschäftstelle:
Robert-Hooke-Straße 5
28359 Bremen, Germany
Tel.: +49 421 178 45-4193
Empfang: +49 421 178 45-6600
Fax: +49 421 178 45-4150
E-Mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:matthias.goldhoorn@informatik.uni-bremen.de">matthias.goldhoorn@informatik.uni-bremen.de</a>
Weitere Informationen: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/robotik">http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/robotik</a></pre>
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