[Rock-dev] Fwd: RE: Avalon's Middleware
Thomas Roehr
thomas.roehr at dfki.de
Thu Aug 16 20:14:24 CEST 2012
On 14.08.2012 12:48, Matthias Goldhoorn wrote:
> Hello together,
>
> I think i move this to the ML, because i still couldn't answer all
> questions.
> Maybe one of the more-active developers could take over (or extend)
> the "core" questions below?
>
> Greetings,
> Matthias
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: Avalon's Middleware
> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 12:15:34 +0200
> From: Jan Sliwka <sliwka at cmre.nato.int>
> To: 'Matthias Goldhoorn' <matthias.goldhoorn at dfki.de>
>
>
>
> I am searching for an (new) comm-framework for our particular project which
> could become THE framework for all the nurc vehicles in general.
> In order to do so, as you said, I am collecting information for a
> state-of-the-art report. If you have access to report like this, I'd
> appreciate to have it.
> I took a look into rock and orocos. I think the documentation and tutorials
> you provide on your webpage is well structured and complete but in my
> opinion they are hard to follow for someone who wants to know about rock
> without necessarily having it installed on the computer and as a consequence
> not able to test the lines of code you provide. Maybe you could add a small
> paragraph to your webpage about how rock works in a simplified (short!!!)
Ack - now on our todo list
> version with lots of diagrams (like it is the case for the orocos doc but
> maybe even simpler...), what a user needs to know (ruby, c++), provide
> templates for users to fill with code... you should maybe not assume that
> people know or should know orocos (since orocos is another sea of code if
> you know what I mean). Or maybe it is impossible to separate orocos and
> rock?...I mean making a full abstraction out of it.
Orocos-related software represents a large part of the Rock-Toolchain.
However, (as one example)
due to the strict separation between driver development and framework
you can always use our drivers independently of the given
framework.
> What I like in your framework is the real-time aspect of orocos and the
> tools you provide (little bit like ROS but more AUV oriented).
> I have some questions.
> Question: do you provide a pdf version of the documentation for rock like
> for orocos?
no (t yet)
> Question: are the tools you provide tested and reliable? Is rock used by a
> university or other institute other than DFKI?
Using our release strategy from master->next->stable we try to maintain
stability and reliability, and most packages come along with unit tests.
We have seen Rock's toolchain and generated components working reliably
in our projects, which is one of the reasons for our first release.
Clearly, the main application base for now has been us at DFKI (in
different projects), and some partners.
Since the first release has been only a couple of months ago and some
people/institute there might be still some unknown early adopters.
> Question: is it possible to use rock without knowing how to use orocos while
> keeping the real-time aspect of the execution.
Components in Rock are Orocos components - thus working with these
components (with real-time or not) does require a general understanding
of Orocos components and their working. The provided tooling by Rock
facilitates your task to build and manage single components and
(complex) networks of components and thus you don't have to dive too deep.
> Question: can you use the statecharts (based on orocos statecharts) using
> rock only?
short version: statechart integration does not exist
long version:
generating components via Rock (i.e. using oroGen) allows you easily
specify custom states of your component: 'Extending the state machine'
http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/orogen/task_states.html
Once you start building complex component networks an integration into
the supervision component (Roby ->
http://rock-robotics.org/stable/documentation/system/index.html) exits.
This integration relies on a mapping of the task state transitions to
events.
> Question: does rock/orocos comply to a specific standard
What kind of standard do you refer to?
Generally, we try to push 'standardization' and rely on (common)
conventions, yet
if you refer to DIN, ISO or similar official type of standard: not for
the Rock part.
http://rock.opendfki.de/wiki/WikiStart/Standards
> Question: what is the license of rock/orocos (It is GPLv2 I think but
> correct me if I am mistaken)
LGPL for most of the libraries, individual packages might differ though
Best
Thomas
> That's all for now, I am sorry to ask those questions but orocos is a good
> but complex tool and I find simplifying it (using rock) a good idea.
> Looking forward to your answer,
> And greetings from sunny Italy ;) (viva the air conditioning)
> Jan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthias Goldhoorn [mailto:matthias.goldhoorn at dfki.de]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 9:14 AM
> To: Jan Sliwka
> Subject: Re: Avalon's Middleware
>
> how's going,
>
> did you already take a look into "rock"?, got problems or is something
> unclear?
>
> Are you searching for an (new) comm-framework for the nurc vehicles in
> general, or do you only collecting information for an state-of-the-art
> report?
>
> Greetings from sunny Bremen.
> Matthias
>
>
>
> On 09.08.2012 10:00, Jan Sliwka wrote:
> > Thanks a lot!!!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matthias Goldhoorn [mailto:matthias.goldhoorn at dfki.de]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 8:26 AM
> > To: Jan Sliwka
> > Cc:sliwka at cmre.nato.int;malgorzata.goldhoorn at dfki.de
> > Subject: Re: Avalon's Middleware
> >
> > Am 08.08.2012 16:49, schrieb Jan Sliwka:
> >> Hi Matthias,
> >> I now work on middlewares for underwater robots at the NURC. I
> >> remember you were developing one in DFKI but I forgot the name.
> >> Could you give me some references and links where I can find more
> >> information about it?
> >> Say hello from me to Malgosia,
> >> thanks,
> >> Jan
> > Hi Jan, nice to hear from you.
> > Greetings of course back from Malgosia.
> >
> > So regarding the "Middleware" or communication framework.
> >
> > The Framework is called Rock-Robotics (www.rock-robotics.org) it's an
> > layer ontop of Orocos-RTT Tollchain.
> > You can have RealTimeSupport but you not enforced to add an RTT Kernel.
> > Rock proides a lot of typical driver like for the BlueView Sonar,
> > Several Tritech devices and other stuff.
> >
> > http://rock-robotics.org/stable/pkg/index.html (search for driver for
> e.G.).
> > The Repositorys of the drivers (more or less all) are located on spacegit:
> >
> > http://gitorious.org/rock-drivers
> >
> > These drivers are (on this layer) Framework-Independently written so
> > that they can be used also on other frameworks or even simple
> > programs, the build simply as an library that can be used everywhere.
> >
> > If yourneed any other information about rock or the capabilities, we
> > are providing an mailinglist that's queite friendly and active. Since
> > i'm also an rock-developer i got these mails too. But if you like you
> > could contact me private too ;).
> >
> > Conrats's for you NURC Contract i aos thougt about sending an CV to
> > the nurc in the future.
> >
> > Freetings from Cold northern Germany,
> > Matthias
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> --
> Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn
> Unterwasserrobotik
>
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> Robotics Innovation Center
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>
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>
>
> **********************************************************************************************
> *** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ***
>
> Centre for Maritime Research and Experimentation (CMRE, formerly NURC)
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message (including any attached files)
> is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and is privileged information.
> The information should neither be posted to the Internet, nor published in any
> other public domain, without the express permission of the sender. If you are
> not the intended recipient(s) or the recipient's representative, you are hereby
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--
Thomas Röhr (M.Sc.)
Space Robotics
Standort Bremen:
DFKI GmbH
Robotics Innovation Center
Robert-Hooke-Straße 5
28359 Bremen, Germany
Phone: +49 (0)421 178-454151
Fax: +49 (0)421 178-454150
E-Mail: robotik at dfki.de
Weitere Informationen: http://www.dfki.de/robotik
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
Firmensitz: Trippstadter Straße 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster
(Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)
USt-Id.Nr.: DE 148646973
Steuernummer: 19/673/0060/3
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