[Rock-dev] The issue with Rock

Thu Jun 5 09:25:04 CEST 2014

Am 05.06.2014 um 09:08 schrieb Matthias Goldhoorn <matthias.goldhoorn at dfki.de>:

> Good Morning,
> 
> I don't know what you mean with resistance, in the past master was the most "stable" version with the newest features.
> Therefore there was no resistance.
> 
> Specially for Syskit/Roby i not posted all bugs, most of the bugs i workaround, but i will start to create bug-requests for this...
> 
> Regarding the new functionality, you are right, most of these features are not needed, they make only the life easier..., but if i as developer see the need of a feature and implement it, i want to use this directly. I think this is normal, since the rock-devs are not pure-rock devs, work is done if we feel that we need enhancements...
> 
> Maybe we should rename the structure or introduce a experimental branch. Phsychological i have the impression that "master" gets associated with "newest" not with an "unstable development" version. Maybe we should rename or create an additional "unstable" branch, from where the release policy to master is not so fixed windowed...
> 
> example development:
> - work is done on experimental and pushed as soon as the dev thing it might work
> - experimental is pushed to master, as soon the responsible dev thing his changes work for all (few days upto a week?)
> 
> Again i thing the primary reasons why most of all stays on master ist that the other branches does not have the "needed"("wished") features, or they have bugs that are not pushed from master

I have my doubt here. None of the core packages had major issues the last couple of months forcing people to use master for the hole bootstrap. 

> 
> Thoughts?

I have the feeling we should just remove master as flavor. In this case everyone has to bootstrap next or stable and if needed he/she can manually overwrite specific packages.

Alex

> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> On 04.06.2014 17:00, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
>> Then ... my next question would be:
>> 
>>   Why isn't there more resistance w.r.t. switching to master ?
>> 
>> I mean, when you say "oh I had a bug on syskit on next", did you report it as a functionality bug on next ? Did you insist that it should be fixed *on next* ? instead of switching to master ?
>> 
>> For new functionality, how much of it is "oh but I need X, it is so shiny" instead of "without X, I really cannot do it !". I mean, when I worked on the Orion I *wanted* some features from master, but quickly realized that I did not *need* them. I had what was strictly needed to get the Joints type (meaning typelib/master but orogen/next)
>> 
>> As for the release schedule / frequency, I can only do +1. Releases are too far apart.
>> 
>> My big problem here is that master has become the de-facto version of Rock that everyone uses, which really hinders possibility to do some actual development.
>> 
>> Sylvain
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Matthias Goldhoorn <matthias.goldhoorn at dfki.de> wrote:
>> On 04.06.2014 15:43, Sylvain Joyeux wrote:
>>> Is that everyone seem to think that they need master. The majority should be using stable or next.
>>> 
>>> Now, I *know* that there are reasons (there are always reasons) why one might think that master is required. However, the main question for me is:
>>> 
>>>   How can we make people feel confident that they can use next ?
>>> 
>>> Or
>>> 
>>>   How can we ensure that 'next' can be used except for a few packages that would go on master ?
>>> 
>>> The best way to start answering these questions is to answer another one:
>>> 
>>>   Why are you on master ?
>> 
>> Because i using syskit and the next version is even more unstable than master. I had several times that the depandancy between roby/syskit and other 'core' packages is hard. So i cannot stay a long time on next and only with syskit/roby on master.
>> Indeed i'm not sure if i can currently use syskit/roby on next and everything else on master.
>> 
>> So generally speaking, incompatibilities between syskit/roby/utilmm/utilrb/typelib/orogen/ base/types/(std)
>> 
>> 
>> The Second point, is that the release cycle to next is to long for new features, i i (as  rock-dev) add new features to rock. I take ofter months before it goes into next.
>> Therefore i have (due to the same reasons above) switch to master, also for other members of my project. I would prefer a shorter release time between master/stable/next...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Sylvain 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Rock-dev mailing list
>>> Rock-dev at dfki.de
>>> http://www.dfki.de/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo/rock-dev
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>>  -- 
>>  Matthias Goldhoorn
>>  Unterwasserrobotik
>>  
>>  Standort Bremen:
>>  DFKI GmbH
>>  Robotics Innovation Center
>>  Robert-Hooke-Straße 5
>>  28359 Bremen, Germany
>>  
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>>  
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>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>  Dipl.-Inf. Matthias Goldhoorn 
>  Space and Underwater Robotic
> 
>  Universität Bremen
>  FB 3 - Mathematik und Informatik
>  AG Robotik
>  Robert-Hooke-Straße 1
>  28359 Bremen, Germany
>  
>  Zentrale: +49 421 178 45-6611
>  
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>  
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> 
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--
Dipl.-Ing. Alexander Duda
Unterwasserrobotik
Robotics Innovation Center

Hauptgeschäftsstelle Standort Bremen:
DFKI GmbH
Robotics Innovation Center
Robert-Hooke-Straße 1
28359 Bremen, Germany

Tel.:     +49 421 178 45-6620
Zentrale: +49 421 178 45-0
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Weitere Informationen: http://www.dfki.de/robotik
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
Firmensitz: Trippstadter Straße 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof. Dr. Dr. h.c. mult. Wolfgang Wahlster
(Vorsitzender) Dr. Walter Olthoff
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Prof. Dr. h.c. Hans A. Aukes
Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Kaiserslautern (HRB 2313)
USt-Id.Nr.:    DE 148646973
Steuernummer:  19/673/0060/3

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